Along with the quarterly e-mailout of the Renewal News and Prayer Calendar, sent the last week of September, we included a survey, asking respondents to share their responses to the adoption of remits ‘B’ and ‘C.’
We received 21 responses:
- Ministers 12
- Elders 5
- Members 3
- Adherents 1
Responses arrived from Vancouver Island to Newfoundland and included some non-Anglo representation (but not a lot).
The results:
Personal response to the adoption of the Remits (check all that apply):
- I am staying in my congregation — 6 ministers, 4 elders, 1 member
- I am waiting to see what the next General Assembly enacts – 6 ministers, 3 elders, 1 member
- I am looking for another denomination – 3 ministers, 1 elder, 1 member
- I have already left for another denomination – 1 minister (retired),
- I am seeking the Spirit’s wisdom – 3 ministers, 3 elders, 2 members, 1 adherent
Other personal courses of action:
Minister (West Toronto): “The Clerk and I have passed along the info from General Assembly, but he we have not discussed the remits with the Session or Congregation over the past couple years at all. It may be a little of ‘head in the sand’ situation – perhaps not the best approach, but that is where we have happily been plugging along for years now.”
Minister (Oak Ridges): “I believe the GA made a poor decision preceded by poor process. However, if one just keeps working in their own congregation and acting in their own conscience, we could lower the rhetoric considerably.”
Minister (Barrie): “My congregation is traditional but vacant. I am retired and Minister-in-Association. If the congregation moves from its traditional position or calls a progressive as minister I will leave it and possibly the PCC.”
Adherent (Brampton): “When it became apparent that the Remits were likely to be adopted (as it turned out they were), I asked Session to strike my name from the nominal roll of members, and to tolerate me as an adherent if they cared to. I wish not to be a member of the PCC any longer. I feel that it has left me, and I have not forsaken it. The congregation of which I am now a mere adherent seems likely to go the way of the PCC – theologically and corporately dying. If I could hear of a congregation and denomination likely to uphold the beliefs and standards that used to be those of the PCC, I would want to explore the possibility of affiliating myself with it and supporting it; I haven’t heard of anything along those lines yet. I acknowledge that there are some congregations and denominations that I don’t consider seriously because I find their worship practices to be so deliberately distasteful and/ or disrespectful as to distract me from any involvement at all.”
Member (Hamilton): “I would like to stay with my congregation, but not if it stays with PCC.”
Minister (Barrie): “I am currently between charges and am not sure if I want to seek a new call within the PCC as I am concerned personally about the impact of the remits on my ordination vows.”
Minister retired (Pickering): “Preaching is irrelevant in present congregation, attending Northpoint by live stream, attend [congregation] by Zoom only to keep in touch with old friends.”
Elder (Ottawa): “Organizing a meeting of likeminded sessions to worship, pray, share perspectives and seek the Lord’s will.”
Minister (Montreal): “A schism seems inevitable. But leaving before all avenues of recourse have been exhausted is a betrayal of our ordination vows.”
Minister (Calgary-MacLeod): “We will not surrender our assets and property for the Presbytery to potential start another revisionist church as our legacy in our community.”
Elder (New Brunswick): “My wife and I will not be staying in the PCC with the adoption of remits, so staying in my congregation applies only if congregational action is taken after next GA, depending on what action that is.”
Member (Westminster): “I am part of a congregation who are tackling the issue through discussion and discernment but with a strong focus on the Word of God being the basis for how to live as Christians in a secular world. I will be waiting, along with our congregation, on future outcomes of General Assembly before making any decision on whether to leave or stay in the Presbyterian denomination.”
Elder (Quebec): “I have chosen to stay within the PCC. The testimony of the Rev. Dr. Greg Brawn, guest speaker for Renewal Day 2021, has impacted and encouraged me to be a voice of orthodoxy within our church and denomination. Graeme Lauber of Journey Canada has also influenced my decision to remain and love those who are struggling with same-sex attraction. I know I am not alone in my walk in the PCC, and I am very grateful for the men and women of the Renewal Fellowship that make it possible for us to meet together and pray for one another. I have also signed the RF PCC Covenant.
I am always seeking the Spirit’s guidance and wisdom, and pray for the PCC, Renewal Fellowship, and our little denomination . . . . God is still working, and may open a door in creating a sister denomination. If that be the case, I will be leaving the PCC.”
Elder (Kamloops): “I am ashamed to be a member of the PCC. The only reason I am still here is because my minister and session are committed followers of Jesus Christ. My church and the local CRC church are the only Reformed voices in town, so here I remain, for now. I do not expect the conversation regarding “gracious dismissal” to bear any fruit, but I will support any effort to find another denomination to join, or even create a new one.”
Congregational response to the adoption of the Remits (check all that apply):
- We are intending to stay within the PCC and support it – 3 ministers, 1 elder, 1 member
- We are waiting to see what the next General Assembly enacts – 2 ministers, 3 elders
- Our congregation is divided. We don’t know what we will do – 1 elder, 1 member
- Our congregation has little awareness of the seriousness of the Remit decisions – 3 ministers, 2 elders
- We will likely close in the near future.
- We have decided to leave the PCC with or without a gracious dismissal option – 1 minister (Eastern Han-Ca), 1 elder (New Brunswick)
Other courses of action not listed above:
Adherent (Brampton): “The congregation of which I have become an adherent, lifting my lines from membership in it and thus in the PCC, is, to anyone who has eyes to see, demographically moribund. Moreover, it fails to fulfill a great deal of the proper role and functions of a congregation. I’m 86 years old, but it’s a toss-up which of us will die first.”
Elder (Ottawa): “Our church held several informational meetings and then voted to oppose the changes on human sexuality. Session recently reconfirmed their stand in a letter to the congregation.”
Elder (New Brunswick): “Session has adopted options 2 and 6, but there has been no congregational vote. I feel that options 1, 3 and 4 apply to parts of the congregation,
so session has work to do before a congregational vote on option 6.”
Elder (Kamloops): “The last response – We have decided to leave the PCC with or without a gracious dismissal option – is very close to where I would choose to go.
Currently, there is no way our congregation will surrender our building and assets to the national church. We will refuse to support our national office in every way we can.”
Member (Lanark-Renfrew): “I am an elder [Retired] I’m not sure where our session stands right now, but my family is waiting to see and if there isn’t a strong response, my family will be looking at moving to another Church. We do have options. However St. Andrew’s is a Bible based church and I’m sure there will be a strong response by our session and that’s the only reason we’re still here.”
Please share briefly any additional thought you may have on this issue:
Minister (West Toronto): “I appreciate the prayerful responses and pray that somehow God will bring good out of this situation. I believe the evil one does delight in the pain, division, and loss of Church connection that this issue has caused.
with hope in Christ.”
Minister (Oak Ridges): There is no gracious dismissal option at the moment … and no need to seek other denominational shelter as people care very little about denominational ties. So for the time being … staying put.”
Adherent (Brampton): “If you’d care to hear what I think are the ‘proper role and functions of a congregation’ (a phrase I use in the answer above) let me know. I don’t mind identifying myself. [NOTE: Renewal Fellowship has invited him to share his thoughts; stay tuned.]
Minister currently without charge (Barrie): “Unless the denomination can separate into two theological streams I do not believe that it will be possible for me to follow my call in the PCC.”
Minister retired (Pickering): “It seems irrelevant/inconsequential/invisible/insignificant to congregation. Opinion of minister and session unknown.”
Elder (Ottawa): “There is no middle ground; some people are leaving because of the denominational stance while others are leaving because of the church’s stance.”
Minister (Montreal): “We, the dissenters of the current PCC doctrinal swing, spent so much time (understandably) in organising resistance that we did not develop fully how faithful to respond to a social situation radically different from that found in the societies of the New and Old Testament.”
Elder (Quebec): “Recently I was elected as elder, and tomorrow, October 3rd, I will be ordained. The PCC’s remits have been weighing heavy on my mind. At a session with the elders, I raised my concerns with the remits, and where we should stand as a church, and where I should stand as an elder; as I do not want to create any divisiveness within our church. A kingdom divided cannot stand. My concerns were brushed aside after a long and uncomfortable silence. One elder eventually said that the situation was very complex, and God is working, and we will revisit this question at a later date. That was that.”
Minister, retired (Vancouver Island): “I find this action of the last General Assembly having a painful disengaging affect on me. I have done all I can to remain with in the PCC through working on restructuring proposals. In June the Assembly voted ‘no’ to investigating such ideas. It appears that our days of negotiating are over! Therefore I find myself looking for a new church family.”
- Questions developed by Robin Ross. Responses collated/organized by Andy Cornell